Hey, it’s Molly from alcohol minimalist. What do you do in this October? I would love to have you join me in my more sober October challenge. What do I mean by more sober October, it simply means that we’re going to add in more alcohol free days than you currently been doing, whether that’s one or two or 31. It’s up to you, you get to set your own goal and that’s why it’s more sober October. You can check it out and learn more at get got sunnyside.co/molly It’s totally free. I’ve got grises I’m going to be going live every week to announce the prize winners. And it’s just going to be an awesome event. So I would love to have you join me. You can learn more at get.sunnyside.co/molly and you can get registered today. Welcome to the alcohol minimalist podcast. I’m your host Molly watts. If you want to change your drinking habits and create a peaceful relationship with alcohol, you’re in the right place. This podcast explores the strategies I use to overcome a lifetime of family alcohol abuse, more than 30 years of anxiety and worry about my own drinking, and what felt like an unbreakable daily drinking habit. Becoming an alcohol minimalist means removing excess alcohol from your life. So it doesn’t remove you from life. It means being able to take alcohol or leave it without feeling deprived. It means to live peacefully, being able to enjoy a glass of wine without feeling guilty and without needing to finish the bottle. With Science on our side will shatter your past patterns and eliminate your excuses. Changing your relationship with alcohol is possible. I’m here to help you do it. Let’s start now. Well, hello and welcome or welcome back to the alcohol minimalist podcast. With me your host Molly Watts coming to you from home. Come on, what do you expect? It’s raining, it’s gray. It’s cloudy. It’s Oregon. It’s February. That’s just the way it looks around here. And I gotta tell you, it’s just not my favorite time of year. Note to you. If you are planning a visit out Oregon way I highly recommend waiting until the summer. Now some of you who are skiers might enjoy the snow during this time of year. But honestly, for everybody else, just just wait until this summer. All right. Before I get into this week’s show, I do want to take one quick minute to talk with you about step one. Step one is my hybrid online course and one on one coaching program that I’m just super excited about. It is something that I created to be able to provide an actionable accessible, affordable opportunity for people to learn these tools and really apply them to their lives, so that you can create a peaceful relationship with alcohol for the rest of your life. For $249, you get a one on one coaching session with me before you get started. Then you have lifetime access to the online course materials. You get group coaching calls every month. And it’s really just an opportunity to keep doing the work and learn how to build on the skills that you hear in this podcast that you may have read about in my book, I want to invite you if you haven’t already checked it out, go to www dot Molly watts.com/step. One and learn more about this. And if you’re looking for something to really get you going in 2023 I hope you will consider joining me in step one. on to this week’s show. I am sharing this week my conversation with Meg Geiss. White. Meg is an author. She’s recently published a new book, it’s called intoxicating lies, which I just love the title, great title. And in it she is sharing her journey to really move away from gray area drinking and really to question so many of the stories that we are told and we are that we learn that we absorb all about alcohol, right? So obviously, Meg and I align on this area in terms of understanding that we get kind of fed a lot of things that are lies about alcohol in terms of how we feel about it. It’s important in our lives, and that it’s necessary for creating fun and all these other things that I talk about all the time. Meg really went on her own journey and she’s going to share a little bit of that in our podcast and she does definitely in her book as well. This book was really a culmination of some of the notes that she took along that journey. She didn’t understand that a lot of these ideas that she had or not truths, right. And so I completely agree with that. And we need to investigate our own thinking we need to investigate our beliefs, we need to challenge some of our ideas about alcohol because they really simply aren’t true. And now make has decided to be alcohol free to be completely sober. That’s awesome. For some of you, that’s the most peaceful relationship. And if that’s you, then I hope you keep working at it and find that for yourself. For me, I am at peace with my alcohol, minimalist lifestyle, but the constructs the challenging of those beliefs. That’s a part of both journeys, right. So I know you’re gonna get a lot out of my conversation with Meg and I hope you will go check out her book. It’s linked in the show notes. Here is my conversation with Meg. Nice fight. Hey, good morning, Meg, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the alcohol minimalist podcast with me. Thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here, Molly with you. I am just so delighted to talk with you and kind of learn more about your new book that’s so exciting. And just more about you and about what this you know why you’re you’ve decided to write a book and the journey that you’ve been on. So the book is called intoxicating lies. So I know that you and I share a lot of common ground here on some of the myths, conceptions and myths that are perpetuated about alcohol. So we’re going to talk about that. But tell me a little bit more about you. And kind of where this whole journey started. And then culminating in writing a book, which of course you and I can both talk about, because I know what it’s like to write a book. Yeah, sure, nuts. Thank you so much for asking. I live in Delaware. And I’m a mom of two kids, I have a daughter who is just about to turn 16. And a son who is 13 years old, and I’ve been married for almost 20 years. And really, my drinking story, I like to go all the way back to when I was a little girl and how the book opens up with the first impressions that I had about alcohol when my parents were either going to a cocktail party or having a cocktail party at their house. And my mom would dress me up in her era, my best Jessica McClintock dress, if you remember those. There was velvet dresses and and so I would serve adorbs to the guests at our house, learning how to people please talk to adults, but really seeing quite a bit of alcohol being consumed. And this is the way to connect to this was the way that my dad let off steam after traveling all week. And my mom, having three kids by herself was another way for her to unwind as well. And no fault of their own. It’s an old conditioned belief that this is how we connect and have fun together. But it’s just one of my earliest memories of alcohol. And we moved quite a bit with my dad’s job. And my birthday is at the beginning of the year. And I was always having to make new friends and you know, invite people to my birthday. And I had only known them for maybe a hot week, asking them if they would come to my birthday party. And so the need to fit in was really about most importance. And in the fifth grade, I was, you know, part of that that popular group and then was ostracized in the sixth grade and felt very, very much like I didn’t fit in. And at the same time, my mom and dad had taken us to get our IQ tested by a local psychiatrist in town, who was very prominent, very well respected. It was kind of the thing rite of passage the thing to do in town. And after tallying up my score, she basically said to me, in so many words, you know, it’s a good thing you can draw, because you don’t have much going for you. So, yeah, I mean, she really should have lost her license, right. But I kept that secret to myself. I figured she’s the expert. I’m a naive, you know, young sixth grade girl and feeling like I won’t amount to much. And at the same time, I was feeling like I didn’t fit in as well. And so those I start the book out really with the lies and stories that we tell ourselves from things that happen to us when we’re younger, or even in an adolescence and how we create these stories around them in these lies and beliefs that you know try to keep us safe and they become coping mechanisms, which I also talk about in the book. But so fast forward to eighth grade. My mom had pulled me out of that school where I was miserable because I was not fitting in and my very first strength was in drink was in the eighth grade where again, I was trying to make new friends. The popular girls came over they asked if they could read my parents like her cat night when they went to bed and of course I wanted to fit in. So I said, Sure. And we did shots of peach snobs. And I had my very first hangover and eighth grade, it was horrible. And that was just really led into high school just a social drinking whenever I wasn’t allowed to go to parties, so whenever I could sneak some in, socially and again, just to fit in, and the same in college, but then in college, I had gotten into an incident where I was at a party in the basement with loud music, and was talking to a handsome charming rugby player who asked me to go outside because it was the music was too loud. And I was sexually assaulted. And that that incident really threw me into this over functioning type of coping mechanism from that trauma, and so I joined every curricular activity at school, I graduated with Kim Laude grades, you know, I had to prove that, because I couldn’t control my body that I was in control everywhere else in my life. And even after college, the Driftless drinking socially and putting myself in situations which weren’t great with men after heavy drinking continued, and I had a second assault after college. And both of those incidents really made me feel not good enough to I really was now my self worth was, was rock bottom. And I was turning towards the culture because I had fallen into sales upon graduation into that hustle culture of I am what I produce. So I believe, you know, I was only as good as my last rankings. And I am what I produce, and I started winning awards, and it made me feel better about myself and again, that that story I had telling my I was telling myself for really, at that point decades that I wouldn’t amount to much I was proving it wrong in a sense. And so then I fell in fell into the beauty culture, I got into aesthetic sales. So now it was not only the hustle and grind but look perfect while you’re doing it all. And it was a toxic culture as well because it’s exhausting Keeping Up with the Joneses and in the appearances and really looking for that external external approval and validation. And then I’ve met my husband and we got married and alcohol was really at the center of our marriage we like to entertain we connected a lot over drinks and then we had two kids and I fell into the mommy wine culture. Where you know with the parenting challenges, we are sold the lie that it is the solution to our mommy woes unknowingly, you know that not knowing that it was compounding a lot of the issues at hand. So I fell into really what Jen couch it sober says cause the detox to retox loop. I was socially drinking still at that point. But I had three life, three life back to back incidents that happened that really shifted that recreational social drinking to a medicinal nightly wine habit. Because I, I was always wanting to be in control. I was a chronic overachiever. I was a perfectionist, I was a people pleaser, right from all of these things that I just recently just told you in my story. However, when these three back to back life incidents happened, I didn’t have control over them, they were so overwhelming and the typical coping mechanisms were just not really working right. And so I was falling more and more into the nightly wine habit to shut off the chatter in my head to escape the madness of the day. And I had finally worked up the courage to tell my therapist that I thought I possibly could have a drinking problem that I was no longer just drinking on the weekends that this was turning into a nightly wine habit. And the back and forth tug of war in my mind and the questioning that I had about my relationship with alcohol Now mind you, every time I would ask anybody, they’re like, you drink just like I do. You know, it’s right. You don’t have a problem. So when I finally got the courage to tell her, she said, No, no, I don’t think you have a drinking problem. I think you’re thinking about it too much. And so her ill advice really kept that nightly wine habit going for two more years. And I didn’t really hit a rock bottom, there weren’t any external consequences. My marriage was fine. I was still winning awards at work, my kids were thriving. However, when I no longer wanted my kids to do sports in the evenings, so that I could come home to my rewarding glass of wine that scared me, because I know, I felt like I was no longer in control, it was in control of me. And so that is when I started doing some research and found sober CES and decided to do her 21 Day reset. Now, I fell into the lie of the instant gratification society that we live in, like, I’ll just do 21 days and reset my drinking. Yeah, right. I’ll go right back. Good, right. Yeah, we all good and 21 days, I literally believed I just had to get a few tools under my tool belt, something was wrong with me, everybody else is able to manage this, this is my problem. It’s truly what I thought plus, I thought there’ll be about maybe two or three other women in this group. And I get in and there’s hundreds of women in there. And I’m thinking, why are there so many women in here and wow, I’m really not alone in this struggle that I had been silently struggling with for years. And as I dove into Jen’s daily emails and lessons, and reading any Grace’s this naked mind, I see the veil started to drop on truly what alcohol is. And I started becoming more sober, curious, and asking myself, why am I using a depressant to celebrate? You know, if it’s a carcinogenic, why aren’t we warned about this? And why is there such a stigma around it if we decide to explore our relationship with it. And so I just started journaling, listening to podcasts reading Quizlet, and decided after the 21 days that I really had never felt better. And in the past, when I tried to quit drinking, it was sheer willpower. That got me through. And now something was different, right? Something was, was changing and shifting for me and how I viewed alcohol. And I started asking myself like, what is it truly providing for me? What do I believe about it? And so in my book, I go over the five most intoxicating lies about alcohol and what I believed that it provided to me. And after her 21 Day reset, I joined her alcohol free lifestyle program. And it was really around that 100 days of being alcohol free that I started feeling things really shift in my brain. And I say that because again, we are in a society that think dry January, we just came out of dry weary, right? Yeah, for sure. Right. So that’s really, and the journaling all through that process. And that time turned into a book. So I take you on my sober, curious journey. And I think a lot of people start in that space, like I don’t want to break up with alcohol, I just want to kind of rein it in, figure out how I can get a better relationship with it. And I’ve no judgement because I was in that same spot. I say it in the book, like thank God, we do have these 21 Day and 30 day programs, because it allows us to explore relationship and ask these questions. And really, my book doesn’t come with any judgment, it’s really there to say, you know, let’s start asking ourselves more questions and get more curious about it and have more compassion for ourselves. Because the stigma around it is what drove me crazy that only until I thought I had a problem with it. One could I did I find out the truth about it. And two people started asking me, you know, are you an alcoholic? Do you think you were addicted? You know, and all these things. And it was like, Really, this gray area drinking on the alcohol use disorder spectrum isn’t discussed enough. And I wanted to bring awareness to it because it is a vast, large category that many of us fall into and that we need to talk more about so that it is we lose that stigma and it is okay to start to explore a relationship with alcohol. And I couldn’t find any books that were talking about that, that we’re talking about gray area drinking in particular was a lot of rock bottom stories that were keeping me trapped, quite frankly, and thinking that my problem wasn’t that bad. Yeah. Well, I love that I actually did a podcast episode recently on gray area drinking and I do think that you’re absolutely right, that we need to share more information and get people understanding, you know, what the problems are associated with gray area drinking and also understanding certainly understanding this has always been my long standing some of my issues with the culture that is is really the narrative that is driven by I programs like AAA, which, you know, this is this is it’s it’s not. I always say if AAA works for people and it helps them change their relationship with alcohol, I am nothing but grateful. But we have to understand that their driving narrative has set us up into a situation where you are either good, bad, right? Wrong, or wack white, diseased broken, or you’re somebody that’s just okay, right with drinking, you can drink it successfully. And that kind of narrative doesn’t do anybody any good. And there is so much good to be done. And this is where I really the reason that I approach it, the way that I do is because I am very focused on the truths, the science, the actual, you know, I talked about it all the time that the safest amount of alcohol is zero, understanding what the science actually says the about it, the fact that it is a carcinogen and known carcinogen, we have to, we have to understand if we’re going to include alcohol in our lives, we need to be aware of our risk profile of what we are doing with our bodies. And, you know, that’s just the bottom line. For me, it’s, it’s a, it’s a decision now, obviously, like I said, I am an alcohol minimalist, I do believe the thing there that I get separated from with the I don’t know about sober ces as much but definitely from Annie grace is that I do not believe that people are absolutely powerless and incapable of deciding to drink in a minimalist way if they choose to. Now, that being said, for some people, the most peaceful relationship with alcohol that they will have and clearly for you, Meg is an alcohol free life, right? Yes, fantastic, absolutely wonderful. But if we if there are people out there that don’t think that they can achieve an alcohol free life, and that keeps them from trying or even being willing to explore, then we are not doing anybody a service by by sending them that message. And there is a lot of good that can be done for anyone in an eye reducing the amount of alcohol and that’s a very known a very known fact with regards to how you know the J curve of alcohol related consequences when people over consume alcohol and so I live in that space where I’m just wanting people to become aware and definitely just like you educate people because we are sold a lot of stories we build beliefs from a very early age culturally from from the alcohol society and industry itself, you know, eating us all these messages. And just like you said, I love the I love the stories that you share it from, you know, serving hors d’oeuvres to going through high school and college. Just a quick break to talk with you about Sunnyside. You hear me talk about it on the podcast and truthfully I have so many students and group members that share with me how Sunnyside is their preferred tool. It helps them build their healthier drinking habits and really create that peaceful relationship with alcohol. It’s a tool that I feel very confident in recommending. And the Sunnyside team has recently in September launched a new iOS app. And that iOS app is going to just enhance the existing text message experience. It makes it easier to build healthier drinking habits for anyone looking to cut back or simply drink more mindfully. The new Sunnyside community is also available only in the new iOS app. And it gives you access to an engaged community of like minded people who are also on a journey to cut back on drinking and build healthier drinking habits. It’s a safe private space and you’ll get access to inspiration and advice from Sunnyside members as well as coaches. I encourage you to go check out Sunnyside go to www.sunnyside.co/molly to get started on a free 15 day trial. That’s www.sunnyside.co/molly I love the fact that you that you shared some of those what I call self limiting beliefs. Right? Yeah, I had a daily drinking habit that persisted for nearly 30 years. And it was because I had a lot of I had an alcoholic parents so my mother actually died from at the age of 31 or 41 year so right I had a lot of really good reasons in my head to not drinking I called it my oxymoronic habit. I couldn’t really understand how somebody that you know had watched alcohol and had this why I still couldn’t seem to break that unbreakable habit But I actually could, and I did very much the same way that you did. I educated myself, I started to challenge some of those old self limiting beliefs, not only about my ability to change, but what I believed alcohol was providing me in my life. And so I think that’s kind of where you and I align, right, because I definitely saw alcohol as something that I needed on a nightly basis to help me unwind. And, and, and I know, in your book, you share information from William Porter. I’ve talked to William a couple of times on the podcast, he and I get this corrected. Colleagues, he’s awesome. The The fact is that the neuro chemistry actually is the opposite. The I was actually fueling my anxiety with my daily drinking habits, right. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, I think that, you know, like you said, that we need more and, and less versus so when we box each other up and put each other into this black and white, especially drinking categories, it does us a big disservice. There needs to be more discussion of this huge space. And no matter where you are on that gray area, your your hue could be a lighter shade of gray, or a darker shade of gray. But what’s important to know is kind of like what you’re saying right now is that it is Jen says this in her program and sober says it’s a one way drinking highway. And if we don’t pull over and lift up the hood to kind of examine Are we headed further down that one way drinking highway, and you know it, it can take one major life event like a divorce a death, an affair, and it can shift you pretty quickly down that highway. And so you know, we have to be aware of this. And we have to talk about this because it’s it like you said it’s not our fault it is it’s the power is within ourselves, we have all of the power. And we get to, you know, make those decisions. And one of the things I do love about services is that it’s non judgmental, and it’s okay, if you are still drinking, you know, we’re going to talk about the truth. And we’re going to continue to support each other in their journeys, but everybody’s journeys are unique and different. And for some people, it takes years, and some people, they just stop immediately. And that’s all okay, they’re all those different journeys are, are needed to be heard and told. And that’s why I put a lot of the different women’s stories in my book, because not everybody’s gonna relate to my story. And you know, like my husband quit drinking with me, but a lot of women’s husbands don’t. Yeah, and what does that look like? And how does that impact your journey? I mean, it’s a totally different journey than my journey. So, you know, we have to start talking about all of these different hues and spaces on the gray areas, spectrum, because there are so many of us in this category. And it’s becoming an epidemic for women. I mean, drinking went up 41%, and women during the pandemic, because we’re sold these beliefs and lies, that it is a crutch. It’s a way to cope, it’s a reward. And like you said, we’re not told the truth that it’s compounding our anxiety and our depression. And so, it makes me angry that we have to think we have a problem with it in order to get this in front to find out this information. Why are we not being told this? Why are we not discussing this? So you know, comes down to money? Yeah. Right. And that’s the, you know, they called it Big Tobacco right back in 1850s, before smoking became the kind of the pariah that it is now, but it you know, it certainly wasn’t right. And the smoking tobacco industry pushed against all the, the, what we knew to be the truth about your lung cancer and everything else with regards to with regards to tobacco and smoking. And the bottom line is that many people believe that that is where alcohol we’ll end up. The science isn’t quite as starkly conclusive as tobacco and nicotine. So it’s a little bit a little bit more challenging in terms of that respect, because there are, you know, and who knows, gosh, and now we’ve got, you know, now we’ve got CBD and cannabis and everything else on the rise, too. So bottom line is that there needs to be more education around all of it. In my opinion, people are going to be in regulation and money will drive all of these things. Piracy will drive all of these things. Don’t kid yourselves, folks. But while that is the case, and that’s really what I talk about in my book, and I just in kind of you you’ve mentioned it too is we have to become our own our own advocates, we have to become aware and we have to learn And we have to create awareness. I call it using your big, beautiful, brilliant human brain, you need to, you know, you need to understand. And that’s really the goal and purpose of my podcast is to help people gain more understanding and awareness, not only of how their brain works, how the neural habit works, how the neuroplasticity works, but also and and how alcohol impacts that neuro chemistry for sure. But also, because we have to be willing to question the stories that persist on television, in movies, on social media, you’re still gonna see it all over the place. And what I love about being in the space that I’m in, and where I am now, with my understanding of all of it is, instead of it like me seeing it and going, Oh, that’s great. I really want to go drink that because it looks so sophisticated. And, you know, awesome. I look at it and think, Wow, isn’t that interesting that that is how, how we frame a known toxin unknown, you know, something that’s in that we’re willing to allow that in this kind of level? It’s very curious to me, right? Yes. Yeah. So in the context that I don’t know when and if big alcohol is going to get eaten down by other, certainly, other governments, obviously, Canada, there’s a big been been quite a lot. So what I was just about to say is, you know, I think it’s going to I don’t think like Ireland is getting ready to put warning labels, I think on their wine bottles, and Italy’s freaking out, right, because it’s going to destroy, they’re afraid. They’re their business. So again, it comes down to money. But I think where we do start is with the dietary guidelines within the US, they just elected a new committee. And they, I just found this out, because I’m in pharmaceuticals. And I have access to some to some physicians who said, you know, we can speak up and put in our two cents about the impacts of alcohol in the dietary guidelines. And much like what Canada did shifting it from, I think it was two a day to two a week. You know, and it’s four ounces. Now, you and I both know, at least what I know, when I was drinking, I was not measuring my ounces, we count. And that’s the other myth and why we believe is that, you know, while I’m only drinking one glass, well, you’re one glass could be eight or nine ounces. Yeah, we’re very big here on alcohol, minimalist about being very realistic, we look at alcohol by volume, I definitely tell everybody you gotta measure gotta pour, gotta look, gotta gotta be aware, because we can’t, just like you can’t, cannot change what you cannot see, if you’re not willing to be realistic and transparent with yourself, you’re not going to be able to change much. Right. Right. Right. And so, you know, I think it’s going to start with the guidelines, I don’t think that there’s going to be any major movement until the guidelines really are set in place. And, and who knows how many voices and how many letters and how long that will take, right? I mean, we just don’t know, there’s so many hands in the cookie jar, at the state level, the distribution level. But what we do have control over is these podcasts, these books and getting the truth out there and really allowing, like you said, the space to be able to be curious without judgment. And that’s really what I want is compassion, not only for ourselves, because we’ve been duped, and there’s a lot of women who have a lot of shame around their drinking, which is the thing I hear the most and that is heartbreaking to me, because we’ve been sold a lot of lies and a lot of beliefs and stories and myths on TV and in movies and on commercials and in our culture and even in our families. And those took years right to be ingrained in us and it takes a long time to rewire. And and and realize that it’s not your fault. It is your responsibility to get curious. And like you said, Ask yourself the questions like Is it providing? Is it giving me anything? Or is it taking away? You know, and I really encourage that in my book, it’s just even with the five most intoxicating lies, just ask yourself, Do you believe this? Do you not believe this? You what what is it that is in your mind, convincing you that it’s giving you something because as long as we live in that state of mind, in our brains, where we think it is of some value or provides us with something, we will probably be stuck in a deprivation mindset, because we will think that we are missing out on that value or that belief. And that is where I just encourage you to stay curious about it and start asking yourself if that’s true if it really is giving you these things and that’s where the truth will come out. Oh, yeah. And it’s a matter of I talk with people a lot about telling the whole story, right? So the whole truth because we, we often want to believe just the first part of the story and not really ask ourselves, I know for myself, I lived with this constant state of anxiety and worry about my drinking, for so long that I literally thought that that was just a part of me, like who I was like, I was just kind of a natural worrier. And I thought that it was just who I was not understanding that it was not just written in stone, that I didn’t have to keep being that way that it didn’t have to keep choosing that. And I know that you in your book, you mentioned Rachel Hart, you mentioned take the podcast and, and obviously, what I talk about, well, maybe not obviously, to you, I don’t know how much you’ve listened to my podcast, but I talk all the time about how our thoughts lead to our feelings, which create our actions which deliver the results that we have in our lives. The bottom line is if if it’s a habit that’s not serving you any longer if anything that you are doing in your life, you’ve got to work backwards, and you’ve got to see where, where what thoughts are taking you down that and it is you will create your own mindset of deprivation, if that’s where your thoughts are, right? I don’t have any deprivation, any desire to over drink at all, I know I’m very cognizant of like I said, How I want alcohol to be included in my life, or not to be included in my life. And that is certainly not something that happened in 21 days, I will tell you that and I I appreciate you sharing that and saying that as well. It’s one of the things that I think is even coming out of dry you weary I do dry you every every year not because it’s a need to in terms of resetting or you know anything else like that. I do it because I remind myself all the time about the value of alcohol free days in my life and why I I want to incorporate more and more alcohol free days into my life. And that’s the way I do it. So there are different paths different journeys make, I really appreciate you taking the time to share yours with me today. Tell me Tell my listeners how they can learn more about you and about how they can pick up intoxicating lies. Thank you so much my well intoxicating lies is sold everywhere books are sold. And you can follow me on Instagram at intoxicating lies book all one word, or on Facebook and intoxicating lies one woman’s journey to freedom from gray area drinking. And that’s the two social media places that I spend the most time and feel free to DM me anytime with any questions and just continue to stay curious. Awesome. Megan Geiss white, thank you so much for being here, folks. I will link everything in the show notes. So you can pick up Mike’s book, you can connect with her wherever and you can learn more about her. And more about just you know this is again, just another perspective on creating and changing your relationship with alcohol. And I appreciate you being here. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to the alcohol minimalist podcast. This podcast is dedicated to helping you change your drinking habits and to create a peaceful relationship with alcohol. Use something you learned in today’s episode and apply it to your life this week. Transformation is possible you have the power to change your relationship with alcohol now, for more information, please visit me at www dot Molly watts.com